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Post by Harriet on Mar 22, 2011 14:52:19 GMT -6
Sergey – I knew pushing a case on you would be harder than anyone else. You have a good history the first two rounds of the game and players trust you.
However, you abused the game. You gained information about at least one players alias as well as their role outside of the game. This has caused problems for town. Regardless of whether or not this happened intentionally, it is a huge conflict of interest. Since these issues weren't resolved themselves, I am finding myself in a spot where I feel like I have two choices: a.) I can allow you use this to your advantage and mislead other players into mislynching this episode b.) I say something now and give town a shot to not mislynch this round. Overall, the whole situation is unfair, not just to myself, but to everyone.
Victoire hinted talked to me about a role issue with Sergey. It wasn’t until much later that I found out the issues stemmed from activities out of game and that it was causing problems for Victoire.
[10:07] mmg1harriet: Did Charlie make any speculations before his murder?
[10:08] Victoire Pierre: Something about Sergey being involved in a role mess.
[10:09] mmg1harriet: A role mess?
[10:09] Victoire Pierre: Charlie was vague on the details
[11:16] Victoire Pierre: Charlie was easily my closest contact, 'e suspected Sergey after Tuesday.
[11:17] Victoire Pierre: Before 'e died, Charlie mentioned to keep an eye on Sergey
[11:19] Victoire Pierre: Charlie 'ad several role claims, 'Arriet, I think one of them 'ad a problem with Sergey
[23:04] Victoire Pierre: I want to speak to Sergey to clear up the issue for sure.
[23:04] Victoire Pierre: Basically, Sergey told the role to hide something, and now it is a little too late for the role to do much about it.
Between this conversation and this next conversation, I found out that what actually happened. Basically, there was communication out of game that lead to the role of a town and alias being revealed to Sergey. Due to the rule violation, people involved weren't supposed to talk about it. Indirectly, this activity affected other players. If I need to get specific about what happened, I will.
After learning what happened, I spoke to Victoire. She was very suspicious of Sergey and how everything was causing her a problem for her.
[23:01] mmg1harriet: So are you worried if he is scum having to try to get him lynched?
[23:01] Victoire Pierre: Ouais et Non
[23:02] Victoire Pierre: I fear if Sergey makes it to end game, et is scum, 'e could manipulate very well to win.
From my standpoint, this Victoire's warning is exactly what is happening. If i need to provide further evidence, I will.
Aside from this blatant rule violation, my points addressed in my post remain the same.
When Sergey came back in game, I wasn’t positive he was scum, but I didn’t trust him. I was suspicious when Sergey defending Nadia, because I thought she was scum.
In retrospect, I believe he was trying keep Nadia alive for the next round so he could use her adamant belief that Hester is scum to get secure an easy mislynch. Having Nadia around to rant about Hester being scum would have allowed him to be more of the silent supporter rather than the front man.
Instead of scum hunting, he tactically attempted to pin Hester and me against each other and convince other people that one of us is scum. Yes, he threw Rachel into the mix, but just for appearance sake. If you think about it, he hasn't really investigated Rachel.
He stopped asking questions and made it more obvious he wasn't scum hunting. My resistance to Sergey's attempts to make me suspicious of Hester brought out an ugly reaction from Sergey. He spat insult at me and became extremely aggressive. At times, he tried to convince me he was town and when I refused to buy into it, he became irate.
When I reread my conversations with Sergey, there are so many red flags that are completely offputting.
On one hand,
[01:09] Sergey: It would make sense for mafia not to be online in order to not slip and guarantee a lynch.
Then he says this regarding Rachel
[15:15] mmg1harriet: I asked her to respond to my posts on the boards, which she didnt
[15:15] Sergey: How is that scummy?
[15:15] mmg1harriet: Why wouldnt she?
[15:16] Sergey: I don't know. That's not scummy. That's lazy.
His explanation as to why he was focusing on Hester to me
[00:52] Sergey: I'm purposely trying to talk about Hester more with you, and Harriet more with Hester.
[00:57] mmg1harriet: What I dislike, is how you seem to ignore the reasons why I dont think Hester is scum
[00:57] Sergey: I'm doing this on purpose, but ok.
[13:51] Sergey: Both you and Hester are pushing this in the background to look at other things.
[14:01] mmg1harriet: I am not going to narrow my focus on only two people
[14:01] Sergey: It's three..
[14:01] Sergey: And, yes, that's what I'm doing.
Everyone, feel free to buy into Sergey’s bullshit. I tried my best to avoid bringing up the out of game crap. At the same time, I will be pissed if town losses like this.
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Post by Sergey on Mar 22, 2011 15:13:37 GMT -6
Harriet,
The person who you are referring to is Eddie. Very early in the game he told me that he was a Mason, along with Victoire. I told him I was a innocent fairgoer. This interaction happened in game. Here are the quotes
Eddie told me this because he knew who I was out of game and I knew the same.
Throughout the early part of the game, I spent a lot of the game trying to subtly suspend suspicion of the two, as well as remove them from my own suspicions, until they gradually revealed themselves to others (Charlie first, then a few others).
Victoire was suspicious of me because apparently she felt I tried to stop Eddie from telling her that I knew. I did feel like we should wait until I at least proved myself to be town for Victoire to know that I knew, again, because of the controversial nature of how the information was gained. Eddie told eventually, though, and Victoire and I discussed it privately and seemed to bury the hatchet a bit.
Eddie can fill in the narrative a bit if there's anything wrong here. I do regret doing it, but it happened, and if I was mafia I suspect that I could do a lot more with that information than simply sit on it.
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Post by Sergey on Mar 22, 2011 15:14:45 GMT -6
I discussed this matter privately with Xaric as well, I'll see if I have the conversations in my confessional.
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Post by Sergey on Mar 22, 2011 15:31:20 GMT -6
If I was trying to do this, why didn't I just lynch Randi? John and I were both considering voting Randi, but we decided in favor of voting Nadia simply to gain information.
I don't see how this is indicting in itself.
A.] My first statement was something that you originally said in that conversation. I recycled it as a form of dry sarcasm.
B.] That said, I do agree with you on your statement. Mafia do have more to benefit from not being online. That said, not being online is different from not answering board posts. The problem I have with the "board post" thing is because it was a main reason why I suspected Scott -- he simply refused to post on the board when Charlie asked him. That in itself, I don't think, is suspicious to me.
I don't see how this is different from you completely and utterly totally tunneling in on me. I limited my suspects because I believe that one of the three of you are mafia. That's what you do in mafia. You find suspects and you pursue them.
And, yes, I am discussing Hester with you and Harriet with Hester. You two were closest to one another, and I think that investigating both of you is necessary in order to find which one of you (or both) are mafia. Rachel is a tougher shell to crack because of her being a replacement, as well as not really having a supposed shit-ton of opinions on record.
Also in interest of full disclosure
- I told Charlie about Eddie's role out of game as well, as I was convinced he was town. He showed me his confessional via skype. I purposely created weak suspicions on Charlie to hopefully prevent his immediate murder. In addition, I later pushed on Hester and Romeo the value of Charlie as being "in the loop."
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Post by Harriet on Mar 22, 2011 15:31:48 GMT -6
[18:58] Eddie Jones: I told him about it, and told him I wasn't going to tell the other mason.
[18:58] Eddie Jones: 2 weeks later, I told him I thought I should tell them, and his initial reaction was
[18:59] Eddie Jones: that he didn't want me to do that
[18:59] Eddie Jones: He didn't see the point
[18:59] Eddie Jones: and it might make him look scummy
[18:59] Eddie Jones: Then after some chatting he changed his mind and said he wasn't thinking clearly
[18:59] Eddie Jones: We spoke out of the game about this
[18:59] Eddie Jones: And I even copy and pasted my role the FIRST night of them game (I didn't realize this wasn't allowed)
[18:59] Eddie Jones: And we got in trouble for it
[19:00] Eddie Jones: and his reasoning for saying he didn't want me to say anything was because of how we spoke about it
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Post by Sergey on Mar 22, 2011 15:35:38 GMT -6
Clearly I did not manufacture that conversation, if that's what you are suggesting.
We have talked out of the game about the game, so did Charlie and I. But the actual role reveal happened in game.
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Post by Harriet on Mar 22, 2011 16:00:17 GMT -6
Sergey, you are insulting my intelligence if you expect me to believe you. I will be irate if town loses to you. You broke the rules and cheated. You used this information to your advantage when you came back in game. The people who have been suspicious of you are all dead. You've spent your time in game trying to fuel suspicion on Hester and me and done little else. Say what you will about me focusing on you. I didn't focus on you until I realized that no one else was fighting back against your bullshit.
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Post by Sergey on Mar 22, 2011 16:19:32 GMT -6
I'm not expecting you to believe me, in fact, I highly doubt that'll happen. You can and should believe Eddie, though, whenever he presents his account of these things.
I did break the rules and cheat. And I have used that to my advantage throughout the game. I think it helped me narrow down the targets. It, after all, gave me two (three, if you count Charlie) people who I knew were town and allowed me to focus my attention elsewhere. As far as I know, Jordan knew about this a while ago and has yet to take action in terms of punishment. I understand that I unfairly aided the town in this aspect, and I expect that the mafia will be very angry with me once this game is over.
I don't know how I used this information to my advantage when I "came back into the game." You yourself brought it up! I don't think it's been discussed much during or after my return.
I have to disagree with you as far as fuel suspicion on Harriet and Hester. You and I even had conversations about other suspects before the Nadia mislynch. I've also discussed Rachel and Randi with others! That said, I have focused on you and Hester because I do believe you two are suspicious. I think the evidence points heavily towards one or both of you being mafia, and I have pushed your names to the forefront.
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Post by Harriet on Mar 22, 2011 16:22:02 GMT -6
Clearly I did not manufacture that conversation, if that's what you are suggesting. We have talked out of the game about the game, so did Charlie and I. But the actual role reveal happened in game. Interesting that Charlie found you suspicious after the Sincerity lynch. [23:45] mmg1harriet: I dont think Romeo or Sergey are mafia [23:46] Charlie Chen: im very hesitant to agree with that [00:12] mmg1harriet: If sergey ends up being scum, I will kill myself [00:12] Charlie Chen: LAWL. idk i felt safe about him a while ago but less so recently [00:12] mmg1harriet: What has he done? [00:13] Charlie Chen: exactly LAWL. his case on sincerity wuz made before susans confession, and since then, what? [00:13] Charlie Chen: but nao what [00:13] Charlie Chen: wut haz he done this episode? idk who he suspects rite nao. do u? |
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Post by Sergey on Mar 22, 2011 16:27:22 GMT -6
That seems to be a conversation before the Sincerity lynch, not after, given that I did do things after I posted the Sincerity case, especially with pressuring her to respond to the thread and then pushing her name as a target to Hester and other members of the crew (including you).
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Post by Sergey on Mar 22, 2011 16:28:32 GMT -6
Furthermore, I point to the manufacturing of suspicions in order to draw attention off us. Charlie did suspect me later in the game, though, once Eddie "officially" revealed his mason role to him in-character.
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Post by Eddie on Mar 22, 2011 16:50:17 GMT -6
Yes, this is all true. To elaborate on what Harriet and I were discussing. What happened EXACTLY was on the first day or two the game started, I copy and pasted my role to Sergey. I asked him what a mason was and what that meant, and showed him that Victoire was the other mason. We were talking between Eddie and Sergey at the time, but were also discussing unrelated things to games because we do know each others' real identities. Jordan warned us for breaking the rules. I asked Sergey not to tell anyone at this point.
Charlie also knew my real identity. Right after we had a little fight on the board (<3 Charlie), I confessed to him that I was a mason and so was Victoire. I told him Sergey knew, and that Victoire did NOT know that I told anyone, because I was really afraid of angering her because I broke her trust. Charlie said I must tell her, but I said I wanted to ask Sergey first, because after all, I wanted to make sure he was okay with that.
His initial reaction was concerned and worried it would make him look bad that he knew. However, minutes later, he said, actually, I don't mind if you tell her, it's fine. I said I didn't want to yet (I'm a wimp at times), and he said it was up to me. So he DID say it was okay to tell her he knew. So yes Sergey has known, but so did Xaric, Flava. Hester and Harriet also knew that I was a mason for the past 2 rounds.
Hope that clears that up.
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Post by Hester on Mar 22, 2011 17:05:56 GMT -6
All of this only makes me think more that both Harriet and Sergey are town fighting. People, scum can take this game if we let them. We need to investigate EVERYONE, not tunnel on one suspect. We only have a day or so left!
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Post by Harriet on Mar 22, 2011 20:48:45 GMT -6
Clearly I did not manufacture that conversation, if that's what you are suggesting. We have talked out of the game about the game, so did Charlie and I. But the actual role reveal happened in game. Interesting that Charlie found you suspicious after the Sincerity lynch. [23:45] mmg1harriet: I dont think Romeo or Sergey are mafia [23:46] Charlie Chen: im very hesitant to agree with that [00:12] mmg1harriet: If sergey ends up being scum, I will kill myself [00:12] Charlie Chen: LAWL. idk i felt safe about him a while ago but less so recently [00:12] mmg1harriet: What has he done? [00:13] Charlie Chen: exactly LAWL. his case on sincerity wuz made before susans confession, and since then, what? [00:13] Charlie Chen: but nao what [00:13] Charlie Chen: wut haz he done this episode? idk who he suspects rite nao. do u? |
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Post by Harriet on Mar 22, 2011 23:21:24 GMT -6
Eddie, why were You/Victoire/Charlie/ suspicious of Sergey?
Hester & Eddie, is this true?
I told you guys that I would try to talk to Randi about voting for Rachel. By the end of the night, she decided to vote for her.
I know, I wont be able to get anyone to vote for Sergey due to his wizard-like persuasion powers.
But am I the only one who doesnt want to lose to cheating? I have seriously tried to get everyone to at least TRY to think beyond Sergey's bull shit. I can't do much else at this point.
Eddie, I am sincerely sorry your friend is a shitty enough person to use you to win, especially if this is really your first game.
Zhao and Rachel, you guys suck for lurking, especially this round.
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